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 Your theories about Grand Finale's hidden truth.

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azureXtwilight
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PostSubject: Your theories about Grand Finale's hidden truth.   Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:59 am

Post mysteries and theories here!!! Let us make a compilation and debate!

Including:
1. Where's Lenarche's family? Who is she?
2. Character secrets and so on... (e.g Behind Zeph's mask, why Shea is alive, and so on...)
3. The main villain?
4. Where's Oswald and .co?
and so on!
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PostSubject: Re: Your theories about Grand Finale's hidden truth.   Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:59 pm

(Um, well, hopefully you don't mind my rather large post here...this is just the theories compilation from dA that I wrote.)

The demo for Fantasia 3 has amused us greatly Very Happy As I can tell. But it also brings up a whole lot of questions. This post is to list some questions and the theories that have been made at LSF and dA. So let us begin.

(WARNING: Contains spoilers for RoT and RotA.
azure and chel are not allowed to say spoilers...unless they really want to.)

What is under Zephyr's mask?
This particular question is mentioned in canon if you choose to go on the mission with Ignitio and Fir. Now, remember that he is Gil's descendant and Raven's as well. Both of them have green hair and blue eyes, so possibly Zephy has blue eyes as well. At the same time, it has been about 200 years, so something might have changed.
Also, although it is mentioned that Zephy is human, he most definitely has some elven blood inside him, and for all intents and purposes, has something else in him too. There is a picture with Zephyr and Oswald together (or who we think is Zephyr and Oswald), so maybe there's something relating to that as well.

Why does he wear a mask?
Well, the simple answer is that azure likes Sync from Tales of the Abyss and based Zephy's design off him. But is there something he's hiding? (look at above question) And wouldn't wearing the mask impair his sight a bit?

How is Lenarche related to the Leingold family?
The diary in the beginning basically sums up the plots of Fantasia 1 and 2, but why would Len have it in the first place? And why does she have dreams of their major plot events?
Some answers given so far are that...
She's Valen and Cain's daughter.
She's Vestoria's reincarnation (for people haven't played RoA, she dies.)
She's Valen's other self, or Cheryl's other self. (As Thanos is Oswald's other self)

Personally, I'm not so sure about the Valen and Cain daughter theory. Valen looks a lot like her mother with red/pink eyes. So why would Len look absolutely different from her 'parents', unless they were able to change her appearance dramatically?
I like the reincarnation theory personally, although I'm not so sure if that would work either. Shea remembers his past life and acts similarly like he did in RoA, while Vestoria and Len, though they look like each other, they don't act similarly, and Len doesn't remember any of her past. Of course, Shea is a demon, while Vestoria, when she died, was a mortal...
The other self theory might make the most sense. And it probably make more sense if it was Cheryl's other self, if one thinks that the canon is Len/Thanos, since that would compliment Cheryl/Oswald, sorta like Kingdom Hearts 2 with Sora/Kairi and Roxas/Namine. If it's Valen's other self, well, Valen did persuade Thanos to stop the chaos and stuff, so maybe Thanos likes her, and Valen can give her 'other self' to Thanos, aka Len. But that only works if canon is Len/Thanos.

So what is CANON, anyway?
Since I brought it up.
Although I declared in red that canon is the pairing is Len/Zephyr, there is Thanos to think about. He's wanted love for two games and it's about time he got any. But at the same time, in the demo at least, Zephyr gets a lot of attention. And azure said that Zephyr is her favorite character...increasing canon chances of Snarkshipping. Even if it is the last game and it really doesn't matter, you kinda have to wonder...

Why does Thanos have green hair?
I don't know about you, but that's been bothering me like no other. Thanos' hair in RotA was more of a black color and Thanos' co-op picture has him with brown hair, but there is this picture of Len holding back Thanos with...green hair...for some reason.
And you know who else has green hair in this game, right?
I'm not sure if it's important, but in RoT and RotA, the guys had different hair colors. This game, not so much. But the people who have similar hair colors have a connection.
Avalon and Alviss have the same colored hair, but that's because they're twins.
Forte and Shea have blue colored hair. Granted it's not the same shade of blue, it's still blue. They're bitter rivals.
Albel and Len have the same color hair...and clothes...and pet affinities. I believe it's been debunked that they are blood related, but their similarities in appearance are important. Somehow.
So I think Thanos probably has some connection with Zephyr.
The fact that Zephyr and Oswald are in a picture together is really suspicious as well.

What I think is their connection is that...
Zephyr and Thanos share a body.
Which means canon would be perfectly fine, except one personalities dominates the other, and it's whoever Len likes the most. It's possible that Thanos doesn't share the body until after the demo, but maybe not. Who knows. It would also explain why Zephy's the Diviner Quatro Leader - he has crazy ass powers due to Thanos. Of course, it could also be because he's the son of the guild leader and has natural born power. But who knows.
Zephyr and Thanos are the same person.
It could be perfectly possible that the Zephyr we have met might be Thanos in disguise. Thanos has show the ability to take over people's bodies, after all, in RotA. The second playthrough option might show Len falling in love with Thanos because she knows the truth ... or something. Who knows.

Of course...they might not just be related at all, and azure gave him green hair because she likes green hair/to troll us. But it's not really like azure to show us these CGs without reason...

Who's staying in the guild and who's defecting
It's not really a question that has been brought up, but I thought I would.

Well, actually azure confirmed it.

Len - will go with whoever she likes the most?
Zephyr - defect. Confirmed.
Alviss - defect. Confirmed.
Avalon - stay. Implied.
Albel - stay? Implied.
Nero - defect, if Albel is staying, since they are rivals. Unknown.
Forte - stay? Unknown (UPDATE: defecting)
Shea - defect? Because Shea did use to work for Thanos. (UPDATE: staying)
But he also might stay, and Forte leaves.
Ignitio - Unknown. His loyalties are confusing at this point. (UPDATE: staying)
Thanos - the leader of the defect group. Confirmed.

Wouldn't it be epic if Lenarche was Valen's other self and Zephyr was Cain's other self?
Something that sayuri mentioned in her impressions, and that azure answered with a MMMM >=D-esque icon.
Personally I think that'd be pretty plausible. And regardless of what azure says -cough- that would point to Len/Zephyr being more canon than anything else. But only if it's true.

From LadyAlistar:
Oh, and I saw that picture with Oswald and Zephyr. Maybe it's something related to Lenarche, sorta how Oswald sent the letter to the person Valen loved the most. Oswald's connection to Lenarche may make him give his power to the person she loves the most. I'm not sure. Then again, if Zephyr is really Cain's other self then Oswald might see him as a surrogate for the missing Cain.
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PostSubject: Re: Your theories about Grand Finale's hidden truth.   Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:03 pm

Ok, I'll take on the challenge!

Since I already know Zephyr's masky secret (*cough*another mask!*cough* just kidding), I shall move on to the rest.

1. Where's Lenarche's family? Who is she?
She is the reincarnation of Thanos who had a grandchild named Helberg Vanguardion
It's basically canon that she definitely has some relation to the Leingold family, but I doubt she's a granddaughter of Valen or something because:
a) That's too predictable
b) That'll make any possible relationship with Thanos virtually incestuous as Thanos is Oswald's other self.
c) If she's Leingold, where are those trademark red/pink eyes?

She also can't be Xaverius.
a) Incestuous relationship with Forte.

Or Tribe.
a) Same as above.

Or Vanguardion or Roughknight.
a) Same again etc.

Which makes me wonder - just what could she have to do with the Leingolds? And how does she have her power? Is she immortal?

I believe so. I think Lenarche is immortal. And immortal means Leingold, right? No. Don't forget. Thus -

I think Lenarche is a descendant of Vestoria and Aldius. As ridiculous as that might sound. But she has Vestoria's blue eyes and her hair is shades similar to hers. And I don't think her powers just came from the Mary Sue goddess.

2. Character secrets and so on... (e.g Behind Zeph's mask, why Shea is alive, and so on...)
Behind Zeph's mask - Theory confirmed, but not telling.
Why Shea is alive - There's a secret behind this? I thought he was just reborn because demons can or something, according to RotA... Maybe Thanos was related in this?
Forte - Pure awesome. Sorry Shea, I like him better than you. XP Clearly a descendant of Vahn and Ciel, hehe.

3. The main villain?
Why do I have a feeling it's gonna be Helberg Vanguardion? XD The faceless old man leader of an organization, dad of a main love interest... Something smells fishy here. XD Also, why would anyone want to steal documents from him? Maybe he was up to something...?
I highly doubt that Thanos is gonna be the main villain or something again, because that won't be interesting anymore. Thanos was sad before, but I don't think he's still trying to take over the world anymore. Though, chances are that he took Helberg's documents... But why would an immortal want Vanguardion's documents? Brings back to the topic that Vanguardion is probably a main villain somehow.

4. Where's Oswald and .co?
Let me explore the following possibilities:
a) Immortals live forever, so Cain and Valen after 200 years are still having their honeymoon and Cheryl/Oswald are happily with them.
b) Valen turned creepy and ate 'em all!
c) The pet ate 'em.
d) They're just out there, peacefully living their own lives because there's nothing for them to worry about yet.
e) Honestly, I just don't know. ><
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PostSubject: Re: Your theories about Grand Finale's hidden truth.   Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:50 pm

Kirroha wrote:

c) The pet ate 'em.

YOU JUST WIN THE INTERNET! WHERE'S THE BUTTON!?
Ahem Razz
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PostSubject: THE TRUTH!   Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:09 pm

WELL. Now then. I will expose everything that everyone wanted to know. Sorry azure, I just can't keep it a secret any more! Twisted Evil

Spoiler:
 
Twisted Evil


Last edited by ~chelxoxo on Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:18 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Your theories about Grand Finale's hidden truth.   Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:14 pm

Shocked w0w , everything it's clear now lol!
This theories maked me laugh so hard
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PostSubject: Re: Your theories about Grand Finale's hidden truth.   Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:27 pm

~chelxoxo wrote:
WELL. Now then. I will expose everything that everyone wanted to know. Sorry azure, I just can't keep it a secret any more! Twisted Evil

Spoiler:
 
Twisted Evil

*literally crawling on the floor* lol!
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PostSubject: Oh My   Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:36 am

chelxoxo Your teory make me laugh like crazy, and that's Really difficult XD, so i totally love your teory XD
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PostSubject: Re: Your theories about Grand Finale's hidden truth.   Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:52 am

~chelxoxo wrote:
WELL. Now then. I will expose everything that everyone wanted to know. Sorry azure, I just can't keep it a secret any more! Twisted Evil

Spoiler:
 
Twisted Evil

And it all starts making sense.....
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PostSubject: Re: Your theories about Grand Finale's hidden truth.   Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:57 am

Chocobunny, I'm glad I made you laugh! ^^

Nyachan... Well, of course! Do you doubt my wisdom?!
(<< that's what Len really looks like) P.S. Your location really made me laugh!! XDXDXD [Even though I would never purposely throw out Mikado, oh hell no O.e]

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PostSubject: OHMY.   Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:08 am

~chelxoxo wrote:
WELL. Now then. I will expose everything that everyone wanted to know. Sorry azure, I just can't keep it a secret any more! Twisted Evil

Spoiler:
 
Twisted Evil

SHEA'S A VAMPIRE?! OHMAH. That's so hot AWESOME!
THANOS IS MY PET?! EVEN IF I NAMED HIM... LOLA?!
So.. That means Thanos' name is Lola? O:
ALIEN?! WHY ISN'T SHE GREEN THEN?! HUH?! I DEMMAND AN EXPLANATION D:<

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PostSubject: Re: Your theories about Grand Finale's hidden truth.   Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:09 am

@Chel: Of course not! I would never doubt queen chel's wisdom! (purrteh len!)
Oh did it? good, I was going for the laughs! Razz (maybe zephyr threw them out in order to get revenge on you....)

--------
and on a not joking seriously seriously thought note....
Len to me is...... Cheryl's "other self" I think this because.....
She wouldn't shut up about oswald..... > . <;
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PostSubject: Re: Your theories about Grand Finale's hidden truth.   Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:39 am

chel: Oh no, I'm spoiled for Fantasia forever -cries in a corner- XD
-------
XD But it just shows that Len is one of us! We can't stop fangirling about Oswald although he has a wife, a kid, and is about 14 times older than us XD
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PostSubject: OSWALD FANGIRLS! xD   Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:54 am

lepapillonrouge wrote:
But it just shows that Len is one of us! We can't stop fangirling about Oswald although he has a wife, a kid, and is about 14 times older than us XD

*Gasp*
SO TRUE!
BUT ONE DAY.. I'LL BECOME AN IMMORTAL TOO! *Weird dreams*
LET US ALL OSWALD FANGIRLS GET TOGETHER AND FORM A BIG BIG OSWALD FAN CLUB!
I'LL BE THE PRESIDENT (:<
*Cheer*

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PostSubject: Re: Your theories about Grand Finale's hidden truth.   Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:04 am

I don't know if Oswald would like that very much...

-door knocks-
Oswald: Who is it?
Fangirls: OMG IT'S OSWALD! MARRY ME! HAVE MY BABIES! KYAAAAAA
Oswald: -shuts door-

You also know that many people would kill to be the Oswald Fan Club president, right? XD
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PostSubject: SUPPORT OSWALD! (:<   Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:17 am

lepapillonrouge wrote:
I don't know if Oswald would like that very much...

-door knocks-
Oswald: Who is it?
Fangirls: OMG IT'S OSWALD! MARRY ME! HAVE MY BABIES! KYAAAAAA
Oswald: -shuts door-
I didn't refer to that.. ._. I mean.
Yes yes yes I love Oswald.
But I wouldn't ever do something like that.
I think it's pretty pathetic, sure I squeel and yell and gasp whenever I see him in the game.
Sure, I always try to remember things about him.
dklgtjkh.
But I wouldn't do that! D:
And plus if I were the president, I wouldn't allow others to do that.
Sure, of course on his birthday we'd probably go to his house and send him gifts.
But try to act normal and polite dude!
xD He has a daughter and a wife, remember?
So what's the point in saying 'MARRY ME!'
Ah, maybe I'm not standing true as a fangirl by being well like this.
But I think that it would be a fail if someone did that.Then they'd be psychos really.
.__. so if that ever got approved.. I don't think I'd let anyone do that as their president.
I'd encourage everyone to love Oswald, to vote for him in threads, to search for fanart of him, to do fanart of him and such! (: Just like supporting him and trying to get him to be as popular as he can get so everyone will know of him and will like him! Like a king or such!
Oswald: I always wanted to rule the world.
Something like that! xD
*Shot*

lepapillonrouge wrote:
You also know that many people would kill to be the Oswald Fan Club president, right? XD

OH WHO ME?! D:<
I'D KILL THEM BEFORE THEY'D EVEN TOUCH ME! BWAHAHAHAHA!
BLOODSHED! GORE! HORROR! Yes.. That's my favorite. <3
SO DARE YOU LAY A HAND ON ME D:< And BWAHAHAHA!
*Alice in Wonderland quote*
OFF WITH HIS HEAD! rofl.
xD

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PostSubject: Re: Your theories about Grand Finale's hidden truth.   Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:59 am

I know. But still...fangirls are fangirls after all XDDDD

Actually, can you be the president?! XD You'd set down a lot of rules for all the Oswald fans so that our ex-Demon Lord of worship can have some space XD Hahaha.

IN THE MEANWHILE...

More theories, more theories...
WHO IS GOING TO WIN -shot- Okay not really a good one but...

HOW IS IGNITIO GOING TO GO BACK HOME?! XD; I guess. And don't say magic because that's too simple. XD
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PostSubject: Dundundun   Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:22 am

lepapillonrouge wrote:
I know. But still...fangirls are fangirls after all XDDDD

Actually, can you be the president?! XD You'd set down a lot of rules for all the Oswald fans so that our ex-Demon Lord of worship can have some space XD Hahaha.
AHAHA! xD Why thank you. Yes yes yes, he needs some peace. And also that way maybe we can gather all the fans round and set them up so they won't bug Oswald as much. OH MY I even have an idea on how to actually do it! How about going on points? Like..
Hmm everytime you post a fanart, support Oswald in some way by getting him popular even tell your friends about Oswald and make them like him and bring more people to the club, you'd earn some points by your action.
And everytime you start bugging Oswald, or declaring your undying love for him all of the sudden, claiming him as yours and such, your points will go down.
Well it's just a theory ! xD
But it'd be fun.

lepapillonrouge wrote:

IN THE MEANWHILE...

More theories, more theories...
WHO IS GOING TO WIN -shot- Okay not really a good one but...

HOW IS IGNITIO GOING TO GO BACK HOME?! XD; I guess. And don't say magic because that's too simple. XD

Ack yes back to the topic, theories huh?
I have one for you, is Zephy-chan Cain's other self? Oswald seems to know him a bit and I'm just guessing.
I also have a feeling that Zephy-chan either had a sad past which involved lots of murders and things, or he really screwed up his childhood in a way, and kept murdering people / getting into fights / etc without a good reason and he'd always run away from home, or things like that.

Now a question, what would Thanos want with some documents? I mean he's an immortal technically, so why'd he need the documents? Is this related to Oswald, or does he have some weird plan or something?
*CoughIBetSomehowHelbergGotAHoldOfHisBabyPicturesAndHeWantsThemBackButHeCouldntFindThemCough*


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PostSubject: Re: Your theories about Grand Finale's hidden truth.   Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:11 am

Now documents are for fetish! Twisted Evil

Kidding...

This is not clear,don't believe in rumors so easily! MWAHAHA! PEOPLE IN THE GUILD ARE SOO STUPID! MWAHAHAHA!

*coughs* Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: Your theories about Grand Finale's hidden truth.   Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:35 pm

so true but it is really weird it think about it Cool
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PostSubject: Re: Your theories about Grand Finale's hidden truth.   Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:59 pm

I knew it! Helberg clearly stole his own documents! I mean, the duct tape seal on his door wasn't broken, so only he himself could have touched his documents! Oh! Oh! We never see Helberg, right?! Helberg and Lenarche are actually split personalities!!! So if Lenarche is Helberg, it makes total sense for her to be Zephy's mom! And that means Lenarche is Thanos' granddaughter! Haha I'm so smart! Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Your theories about Grand Finale's hidden truth.   Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:18 pm

Kirroha wrote:
I knew it! Helberg clearly stole his own documents! I mean, the duct tape seal on his door wasn't broken, so only he himself could have touched his documents! Oh! Oh! We never see Helberg, right?! Helberg and Lenarche are actually split personalities!!! So if Lenarche is Helberg, it makes total sense for her to be Zephy's mom! And that means Lenarche is Thanos' granddaughter! Haha I'm so smart! Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Your theories about Grand Finale's hidden truth.   Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:30 am

My theories...

1. Where's Lenarche's family? Who is she?

Lenarche is the reincarnation of Vestoria, like some have said. I haven't played the first game in a long time, but she might have another self, which is Lenarche. Well, Vestoria is dead, and the first question is almost the same as the "Where are the immortals" question.

2. Character secrets and so on... (e.g Behind Zeph's mask, why Shea is alive, and so on...)

-What's behind Zephyr's mask?
Well, in the Realm of Thanos, Gil had a hood. He was hiding his mark (don't know what to call it). But Zephyr is human. Maybe he's only almost human? He's kind of a half and he want's to hide it?

-Why is Shea alive?
I haven't played the games well enough... ^^; I don't really know much about demons. He probably used a rune gun over and over to detransform himself into a lighteater, I guess. Can't demons be reborn?

3. The main villain?

I don't know, we will find out later. xD

4. Where's Oswald and .co?

Immortals can die under certain situations. It's possible that Valen's family dies. Or, it could be that they are just hiding. Or they went back to Earth.
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PostSubject: Re: Your theories about Grand Finale's hidden truth.   Sun Aug 01, 2010 11:14 am

Whoa,whoa, whoa, I just realized something. Valen didn't turn Cain immortal. Cain was already an immortal. That means they could have created two immortals... which is kinda a moot point now that I think about it. I mean, whoop de doo they can have two kids instead of one. Well, I guess Cain or Valen could make whoever immortal. I guess it's not that big a breakthrough after all (especially since people probably already knew this). Eheheh...

*EDIT*

I also just realized that Cain is 30 when he meets Valen. Because during RoT he was 5 and RotA happens 25 years in the future, right? I guess since he's immortal that's why he looks young. But it doesn't make sense that Valen and Cain were both little kids when they met in the realm. Oswald and Cheryl waited 10 years before having a kid and then Valen must have been 4 or 5 to be talking to Cain. Then Cain would have been almost 20 Shocked. Am I getting this all wrong? My brain hurts T_T.
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PostSubject: Re: Your theories about Grand Finale's hidden truth.   Sun Aug 01, 2010 11:41 am

sayuri wrote:
Whoa,whoa, whoa, I just realized something. Valen didn't turn Cain immortal. Cain was already an immortal. That means they could have created two immortals... which is kinda a moot point now that I think about it. I mean, whoop de doo they can have two kids instead of one. Well, I guess Cain or Valen could make whoever immortal. I guess it's not that big a breakthrough after all (especially since people probably already knew this). Eheheh...

*EDIT*

I also just realized that Cain is 30 when he meets Valen. Because during RoT he was 5 and RotA happens 25 years in the future, right? I guess since he's immortal that's why he looks young. But it doesn't make sense that Valen and Cain were both little kids when they met in the realm. Oswald and Cheryl waited 10 years before having a kid and then Valen must have been 4 or 5 to be talking to Cain. Then Cain would have been almost 20 Shocked. Am I getting this all wrong? My brain hurts T_T.

Technically, they couldn't have two kids, because Valen's the one to uh...birth the baby, and if Cain could make a baby immortal, what's it supposed to be when it's born? They're both immortals, so they have to make an immortal. If they have a second kid, Valen would die because she's the one making an immortal. I think?

Also, I think it said in the game that since Cain was trapped in the Realm, his growth slowed a lot, and growth speed only returns after he's strong enough to get outta there. Sealed, I believe.
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