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 Would you please listen?

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Nyama-Chama
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PostSubject: Would you please listen?   Sat Oct 08, 2011 10:56 am

Hello, this is somewhat of a compliant/suggestion/request message (I hope this is the right place to put it).

I have been a fan of the game for a few years. It's honestly a good plot with some pretty decent characters. What I am addressing today though, it not the characters, but what's currently going on with visual novel. I can understand that many things have happened, I can understand that. What I cannot understand is how you're working on another project so vigorously after so many promises to your fans about certain dates for certain things. Even though your fans, such as myself, don't mind waiting, I honestly don't think we should be waiting because you're working on your "suppose to be" secondary project first. My next point would be that you cut out two characters from the game, and I would be fine with this had I been given a proper explanation. I'm really confused on this, because I have looked through many of the posts and found nothing on this issue. I would really appreciate an explanation. Just some reason as to why it was done, maybe?

-Your loving fan, Nyama.

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PostSubject: Re: Would you please listen?   Sat Oct 08, 2011 10:58 am

I agree with this,
at least addressing these points rather then treating them like elephants in the room would be appreciated

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PostSubject: Re: Would you please listen?   Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:17 am

Hope you don't mind if I throw in a few cents. I know what it feels like to have your hopes dashed, and I will talk to Azure about the whole "setting false deadlines" issue, but being a gamemaker myself, I know it's very difficult to actually feel obliged to churn out masterpieces, because the only motivation and incentive you actually have would be sheer interest in completing your story, and not money. Thus, it's actually understandable to overestimate yourself and set a possible deadline when you are still motivated in this project, but when school work gushes in you are forced to prioritize your school work and job over making a non-profit game that was nothing but a personal hobby to begin with. What's the point of continuing your personal hobby if it becomes an obligation instead of something you truly enjoy making? This is why honestly, I don't believe in rushing a game maker who's making games for free.

Of course, I understand that your hopes are dashed, but rest assured that both Before Requiem and MoGF WILL be completed in due time. She's not cancelling either project, and she's even willing to continue making games after MoGF. The only quality assurance check is herself. If she's not interested and yet she is still obliged to create games for nothing, I believe that the result will definitely be something that will be much more unpleasant, and everyone will be bitter as a result. This isn't what I personally want, at the very least.

As for Albel and Iggy's removal from the obtainables list - that's all they are. They no longer can be put in a romantic relationship with Len. But that does not undermine any of their worth as characters. They are still in the game, they are still just as major (if not more, because without the whole romance thing we can see more of them as characters instead of just eye candy for Len). Of course, you can say my perception may be skewed, because I am a straight guy and I don't like otome games. Thus, I am here because I enjoy how things go on, I enjoy helping Azure with her works and adding new plot ideas at intervals, and honestly I don't care if Albel and Iggy end up with Len, because they don't. They were never even canon in the first place. If you're worried about them being Forever Alone or something, rest assured that they do get with their respective partners in the end, which actually suit them more than Len does. If there's still something bugging you about Albel and Iggy not being able to fall in love with Len and hug and kiss etc, feel free to post.

Of course, it's not as if I am putting down your statements or anything. Smile If it sounds like I am, I apologize. I do know what it feels like to wait for something anxiously and it keeps getting postponed, but ultimately I guess the only solution is to wait. Motivation doesn't just come so easily, and ultimately I guess the thing to be glad about is that it isn't cancelled (*cough* Like most of BadLuck's games*cough* Still, can't blame him... I just stopped playing them because he keeps letting his fans down by cancelling everything).

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PostSubject: Re: Would you please listen?   Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:40 am

That's sort of a politician's answer Kirroha.
You really haven't addressed the points she asked,
and when you do its sort of vague and comes off unrelated.

Also,e
While there is no physical reward to doing free games, there is still a responsibility to the people who follow you. Lots of people look up to azure and while yes she can, she's not asking her to rush her game, she's asking why she's working so hard on something that isn't the game that everyone is expecting and kind of became her fans for in the first place.

I'm also sorry Kirroha,
there's a strange tone in your reply, that emote seems to be adding sarcasm I'm not sure you're implying.

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PostSubject: Re: Would you please listen?   Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:42 am

I would also like to reminds you that she's actually studying to became a doctor. Those are hard studies and taking a lot of time. Of course, creating Fantasia games are something that she's doing for her fans but mostly for herself because she enjoy it.

At least I think it's more important for her to study than to create this game. Also, add the fact that she's doing another project that means a lot for her because she want to try something else than just a lovey-dovey story. Dopple is something more mature and needing more concentration, which is a good thing for people that looks for something harder to understand.

About Albel and Iggy, I think it's harder to create many paths and because she wants to release this game on time she had to cut somewhere. We can't have both the game in time AND all the characters. She had to choose and decided it would be better to cut off two relationship instead of making us wait even longer.

And also, do you know how much times it takes to create a game? She's working on a side-VN (BR) to show us the whole story, adding Dopple, adding Fantasia, and adding her studies and her social life. It's taking a lot of time and energy. I guess we are all waiting for these games to be released and are expecting them soon but I think it would be better to respect her in this situation.

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PostSubject: Re: Would you please listen?   Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:54 am

Sleix wrote:
That's sort of a politician's answer Kirroha.
You really haven't addressed the points she asked,
and when you do its sort of vague and comes off unrelated.

Also,e
While there is no physical reward to doing free games, there is still a responsibility to the people who follow you. Lots of people look up to azure and while yes she can, she's not asking her to rush her game, she's asking why she's working so hard on something that isn't the game that everyone is expecting and kind of became her fans for in the first place.

I'm also sorry Kirroha,
there's a strange tone in your reply, that emote seems to be adding sarcasm I'm not sure you're implying.

Oh, really? Just so you know, I added that last paragraph because I realized my post might come off as slightly hostile, so I wanted to show that I wasn't trying to be mean. I didn't expect it to backfire, but ah well, I can't have everything.

As for it being "vague" or "unrelated", I wanted to show that firstly, Azure wasn't even cutting out any characters in the first place. Secondly, she's making games for free, and so she does not have the monetary motivation that most gamemakers have, so by making such a post in the first place you're not just rushing her, but sapping her of any motivation that she has. I doubt this will work to your benefit by far.

As for her responsibilities, yes, she has the responsibilities to finish the game because she started it. I did mention that I have seen gamemakers who made games that they didn't finish (e.g. Badluck764, who made a bunch of games that never got finished), and of course I find that irresponsible. But Azure does want to finish her games. It's a matter of when right now, and you have to give her time for that. As for her working on another game in the meantime, it's her every right to do that. She doesn't exist for the sake of creating Fantasia. If every game maker is obliged to create what the fans demand them to, then Amanda Fitch would be bashed for taking a break from Aveyond and creating Grimm's Hatchery, Darkfall Manor, etc. So you're not happy that Fantasia hasn't been cut up and served on a golden platter for you yet because the chef (which wasn't even hired by you) is busy cooking something else for another batch of guests... Sorry, but I find that downright preposterous.

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PostSubject: Re: Would you please listen?   Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:01 pm

Guys, I expected a response like this.

I know she's going to medical school and stuff. I'M NOT WORRIED ABOUT THE TIME NOR AM I EXPECTING HER TO BE LIKE " OH MUST COMPLETE FREE GAME.". That was not the tone I was trying to emit. I WANT her to take longer on both games. However, I just want to know why the characters paths had to be cut out and why the majority of her work seemed like it was going to Doppelganger. It's not that I want the majority of her work to be directed to Fantasia, I just was thinking that maybe it should be split more evenly. However, it seems that everybody took me entirely the wrong way headed toward south. I sincerely felt I was being uninformed was all. However, I guess you guys also came to a misunderstanding with me. I wasn't trying to start a flame war or anything. Next time something like this happens, we'll just keep our mouths shut then, aru?

(The ending sentence wasn't sarcasm, even though it may seem like it.)

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PostSubject: Re: Would you please listen?   Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:07 pm

Nyama-Chama wrote:
Guys, I expected a response like this.

I know she's going to medical school and stuff. I'M NOT WORRIED ABOUT THE TIME NOR AM I EXPECTING HER TO BE LIKE " OH MUST COMPLETE FREE GAME.". That was not the tone I was trying to emit. I WANT her to take longer on both games. However, I just want to know why the characters paths had to be cut out and why the majority of her work seemed like it was going to Doppelganger. It's not that I want the majority of her work to be directed to Fantasia, I just was thinking that maybe it should be split more evenly. However, it seems that everybody took me entirely the wrong way headed toward south. I sincerely felt I was being uninformed was all. However, I guess you guys also came to a misunderstanding with me. I wasn't trying to start a flame war or anything. Next time something like this happens, we'll just keep our mouths shut then, aru?

(The ending sentence wasn't sarcasm, even though it may seem like it.)

In case you don't understand, only my first post was directed at you, and I believe I wasn't intending to insult you. I believe you weren't trying to insult anyone either. My second post, however, was directed to Sleix due to her second post being rather offensive, but let's not talk about random hungry trolls who bandwagon for the sake of bandwagoning.

Thanks for clearing it up. Just to tell you, for now majority of Azure's work is directed towards Before Requiem, which is Fantasia-related. It might seem that she's working a lot on Doppelganger, but rest assured that actually isn't the case. She wants to release Before Requiem first, then put some effort on Doppelganger (it isn't meant to be too long), and then dump in all her effort into making MoGF as good as possible. I do believe that's what you want, as well.

As for character paths being cut out, I would like to know what's the problem with that. Albel and Iggy will still be focused on a lot (Heck, Iggy's even focused on plenty in Doppelganger), just not in the sense that they will be potential boyfriends for Len. Given how Len isn't even supposed to be with either of them canonically, I don't see what is the problem here. Their paths themselves will be rather empty anyway, since Albel doesn't really have any personal insecurities, and Iggy just wants to go home, which will be covered in every path. If you're worried they won't be together with any girl, or won't be involved in a romantic relationship, I'll just tell you they will, so there's nothing to worried about.

Cool.

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PostSubject: Re: Would you please listen?   Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:16 pm

~Sir Kirroha wrote:


In case you don't understand, only my first post was directed at you, and I believe I wasn't intending to insult you. I believe you weren't trying to insult anyone either. My second post, however, was directed to Sleix due to her second post being rather offensive, but let's not talk about random hungry trolls who bandwagon for the sake of bandwagoning.

Thanks for clearing it up. Just to tell you, for now majority of Azure's work is directed towards Before Requiem, which is Fantasia-related. It might seem that she's working a lot on Doppelganger, but rest assured that actually isn't the case. She wants to release Before Requiem first, then put some effort on Doppelganger (it isn't meant to be too long), and then dump in all her effort into making MoGF as good as possible. I do believe that's what you want, as well.

As for character paths being cut out, I would like to know what's the problem with that. Albel and Iggy will still be focused on a lot (Heck, Iggy's even focused on plenty in Doppelganger), just not in the sense that they will be potential boyfriends for Len. Given how Len isn't even supposed to be with either of them canonically, I don't see what is the problem here. Their paths themselves will be rather empty anyway, since Albel doesn't really have any personal insecurities, and Iggy just wants to go home, which will be covered in every path. If you're worried they won't be together with any girl, or won't be involved in a romantic relationship, I'll just tell you they will, so there's nothing to worried about.

Cool.

I did. I'm sure Sleix didn't mean to seem offensive, it's probably just the way it came off, so please don't leave that lingering anger at her. > . <

Okay, I see then. I understand, thanks for clearing that point up with me. C:

There isn't a problem with that at all. I just wanted to know what the reasoning for it was, as some fans had really been looking forward to those two. I've been lurking long enough to know everybody but Thanos and Zephyr have soulmates. I just really wanted to know the reasoning and maybe let some fans get cleared up on that a little bit. ^ ^;

Thank you for handling this with me, though.

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PostSubject: Re: Would you please listen?   Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:23 pm

Thanks. Smile Sorry, I guess I got a little personal about how she called my answer a "politician's response" just because I tried to be polite with it, haha. XD I didn't intend to be vague or beat around the bush, it's really what I believe in. I'm just worried that Azure would get upset, because she's making this game mainly for the fans as well, and she might think that Sleix is angry at her, which will make her insecure and lose motivation to continue. After all, when you're making a free game, you're only pressing on for the sake of your own interest and also not to let your fans down, so when she sees that her fans are already upset, she might feel upset herself. ^^;

Thanks for clearing it up, and I hope you won't be too upset. Doppelganger is really a side-project anyway, and she isn't really focusing that much on it - it's just that it turned out longer than she expected, hence the updates. Still, she's dedicating most of her time to the release of BR - just that it really has a lot of sprites, most of the editors/proofreaders she hired kept disappearing, and also we've decided to add a couple of new tales in it regarding Klavios so that Albel fans won't be too upset about him being removed from the obtainables. After all, ultimately it's much easier to write than to draw, and so the updates regarding doppelganger's word count isn't really considered "putting a lot of effort in", but the sprites she updated for BR really do show how much effort she's been putting in for Before Requiem. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Would you please listen?   Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:21 pm

O.O...Everyone is sooo cool heree! *shot of being extra* Gomenasai desu Q.Q...But when i read all ur post, i was like "so cool! >///<!! *sparkled sparkled*" eheheh *sweat*
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PostSubject: Re: Would you please listen?   Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:14 am

Fuu, sorry for the long response.

I'm gonna be bold and honest here, Doppelganger isn't my secondary project. It's currently being my primary project, because I needed a break from Fantasia. I wanted to make other stories, and even though I'm known from Fantasia, it's not the only thing I want to make. The characters grew on me, and the story gets more interesting to write, so yeah. There are a lot of things I didn't like in MOGF, so I decided to revamp it all after writing and drawing a lot more. It's more like a personal reason, really. Because it's personal, I don't care what people think. It seems to be more liked than Fantasia in the lemmasoft forums anyways.

Second, I'm a medical student, working as a freelance artist, a lab assistant, and is currently organizing blood donor. Not to mention I have friends and wish to hang out with them. I can't afford to write so much and draw so much, and I want to do what I like, yep, sounds a little egoist, isn't it? But in two and a half years I'm going to work full time as a doctor and I don't have time to do VNs anymore and would have to stop permanently. That's pretty much the reason why Albel and Iggy are cut out is that I don't have the time writing more about them and drawing their CGs.

Third, don't worry. I'm working on Before Requiem, that counts as Fantasia.

Fourth, I won't promise anything anymore. All the games I'm working on will or will not be finished, I will give an exact time when they are all finished beta-testing.




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PostSubject: Re: Would you please listen?   Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:32 am

Ah, thanks Azure. I guess that'll all be cleared up now. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Would you please listen?   Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:45 am

Sorry if I sounded rude or harsh, but that's the fact ^_^;

If you don't enjoy doing it, what's the point of creating something?

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PostSubject: Re: Would you please listen?   Sun Oct 09, 2011 12:35 pm

azureXtwilight wrote:
Sorry if I sounded rude or harsh, but that's the fact ^_^;

If you don't enjoy doing it, what's the point of creating something?

Totally agreed. Thanks for taking times to create those games anyway Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Would you please listen?   Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:18 am

-Totally off topic-
I find it weird that at first all the replies were in paragraphs then turned into one sentences. xD -end of off topic statement-
I believe that even though many fans are very anxious for this AWESOME masterpiece of an otome game, she also has a personal life. I'm pretty sure she has more important things to deal with than make an otome game for fans that is free nonetheless. But I promise that when I get older and have my own permanent job and a credit card, I will buy any commercial games that she whould be thinking of. I have been patiently waiting for 2 years, and I'm whittling my time here [having fun of course]. I think it's best that we should wait and let her do her best, and not let it rush and become sloppy. Though I am curious to see what would happen if she did do a rushed game, I bet it would be still great. xD
I know this doesn't help at all with your complaint/suggestion/request message, but I felt that I should throw in what I think.
By the way, it may seem that I'm repeating some stuff that other people have already written, so sorry Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Would you please listen?   Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:19 am

Thank you for understanding, darkdoll Smile

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